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Osgoode Hall Law School Professor Richard Haigh and his student co-host get together to discuss the in‘s and out‘s of Canadian law school life while attempting to be funny. Sit down, shut up, and don‘t forget to do your readings.
Episodes
Tuesday Mar 23, 2021
Tuesday Mar 23, 2021
Alex Mulligan, a 2L student at Osgoode, joins us today and for the following two episodes as we do a special series on the job interviews in 2021. Today's episode, Part 1, is all about the "OCI" process in Ontario, where employers and students get together for 17 minutes to decide if they'd like to get together for longer later. Richard is just along for the ride.
Links:
WLGTDWI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatslawgottodowithit/
Music Attribution:
What's Law Got to Do With It
Music by Tina Turner; Lyrics by Nikolas Koschany
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Monday Mar 15, 2021
Monday Mar 15, 2021
Our guest this episode is Erin McCready, a friend of Felicity's studying at Northeastern University School of Law in Boston. We first had Erin on the show in episode #57, NUSOL v. MAGA, related to the 2020 US election. As we indicated then, that episode was actually Erin's second episode with us, but we simply had to launch it first because of the timing. We now go back to the future for Erin's first recording with us. We discuss what it's like to be a Canadian student at a US law school and Erin and Felicity re-connect over their Quidditch triumphs.
Links:
WLGTDWI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatslawgottodowithit/
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Monday Mar 08, 2021
Monday Mar 08, 2021
Our guest this episode is Emily Kot, returning again for more challenging Zoom discussions. The three discuss what it has been like learning online for the better part of a year. No one can agree on what are creative solutions or what are just weird ones.
WLGTDWI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatslawgottodowithit/
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Friday Feb 26, 2021
Friday Feb 26, 2021
Dylan Yan returns as our guest this episode. Dylan is in Montreal at McGill. Felicity and Dylan take over the show and ask Richard all about student evaluations of professors.
Links:
WLGTDWI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatslawgottodowithit/
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
What's Law Got to Do With It
Music by Tina Turner; Lyrics by Nikolas Koschany
Monday Feb 22, 2021
Monday Feb 22, 2021
Shaniel Lewis returns as a guest for this episode. Shaniel's a 2L student at Osgoode.
After much rambling, the discussion finally gets around to the reason Shaniel has returned -- to talk about the Black Law Students Association (or more colloquially known as BLSA, pronounced "Balsa").
Richard teases both Felicity and Shaniel by withholding some sage advice. He also remembers he has a gift for Shaniel, which remains hibernating in his office at the law school. He promises to get it to her someday once the pandemic is over.
Links:
WLGTDWI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatslawgottodowithit/
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Wednesday Feb 17, 2021
Wednesday Feb 17, 2021
Our guest today is Nikolas Koschany, who is a 1L at Osgoode. We talk about what it is like to finish the first semester of law school, how the Supreme Court is not just fond of living trees, but can also be described as a gardener or as a pair of pants (you'll have to listen to figure that one out!). Nikolas describes themself as like a pie. Richard laments the use of metaphors.
Nikolas is the writer and singer of our new alternative opening to the show. We love them for it; and this episode is where the promise to do it occurred. It's always nice to see people living up to their promises.
Links:
WLGTDWI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatslawgottodowithit/
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
What's Law Got to Do With It
Music by Tina Turner; Lyrics by Nikolas Koschany
Monday Feb 08, 2021
Monday Feb 08, 2021
Our guests today are Colin McMillan, who joined us on episode #63, and his roommate, Tom Russell. Colin is a 1L at Ryerson; Tom is a 1L at UofT. They have known each other since high school. We talk about what it is like to live with someone who is in law school but not the same one. There's something about law school that brings people together.
Links:
WLGTDWI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatslawgottodowithit/
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
What's Law Got to Do With It
Music by Tina Turner; Lyrics by Nikolas Koschany
Monday Jan 18, 2021
Monday Jan 18, 2021
Our guest today is Karen Randhawa, a student at Osgoode. Karen was a mentee of Felicity's in her first year. Karen knew from grade 4 that she wanted to be lawyer; more relevant, she knew from her undergraduate days that she wanted to do tax law. That's why we had her on the show -- while some people take a long time to know what they want to do in life (read: Felicity) others are dead sure early on. For Karen, the only question is whether she will do transactional tax work or tax litigation. We all agree that it's okay to be either type but no matter what, it isn't a bad thing to keep your options open.
Links:
Legally Brown: https://legally-brown.weebly.com/
Legally Brown Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/legallybrownlaw/
WLGTDWI Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whatslawgottodowithit/
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Friday Jan 08, 2021
Friday Jan 08, 2021
We are joined by a returning guest, Sim Singh. Sim regales us with his new method for accomplishing three key things at one time: walking in nature with 40 lbs in a backpack, listening to Audible books on his earbuds. You learn, you bear weight, and you improve the cardio-vascular system. He recommends all law students try it. The three then discuss some basic advice to students about the recruitment process. Sim's bottom line: life is full of constant unknowns, flux and change; keep your perspective and realize all law students have been granted a privilege; something will happen. Richard and Felicity feel like guests on their own show.
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Monday Dec 21, 2020
Monday Dec 21, 2020
We are joined this episode by Zach Battiston and Karly Lyons. Zach and Karly are the co-founders of the Legal Listening Podcast. Like audiobooks, the Legal Listening podcasts provides an oral version of famous cases in their entirety. Karly and Zach explain how it came to be, how it all works, and why reading (or listening) to the full text of a case is often better than its excerpt.
Legal Listening Podcast: https://www.legallistening.com/
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Wednesday Dec 09, 2020
Wednesday Dec 09, 2020
Our guest this episode is Colin McMillan, a 1L student at Ryerson. Colin did his undergrad at UofT in physics and history, took a gap year where he worked in pest control and at a medical lab. But the reason he's on the show is mainly because he was one of the lucky students to be inducted into the inaugural class at Ryerson law school.
We discuss what's it like being at Ryerson. Colin goes over the format, which is different from most (all?) law schools in Canada. In particular, every class will have 2 instructors: a regular "professor" for theory elements, and a practising lawyer for tutorials and practical elements of lawyering. Already, he's had a lot of hands on experience experimenting with things like filling out leases, writing opinion letters, and interviewing clients. Colin also notes that the school has a requirement to do an internship which normally means that for one term in 3L, students will be placed at a law office.
All in all, Colin's experience at Ryerson has been, it seems safe to say, fantastic. The profs have been welcoming and engaging, the school has navigated Covid as well as could be expected, the practical sessions have proven valuable, and he's gained a lot of confidence regarding the practice of law. Felicity thinks everyone who goes to Ryerson loves it; Richard recommends she may wish to do law school there all over again.
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Tuesday Dec 01, 2020
Tuesday Dec 01, 2020
Our guest this episode is Sydney McIvor, a 3L student. Sydney mentions a play for her law-related entertainment -- What the Constitution Means to Me by Heidi Schreck -- which she saw on Broadway. (Lucky her! -- but also lucky for those who have access to Amazon Prime as it is available for streaming: https://www.amazon.com/What-Constitution-Means-Me/dp/B08KRB3FQ4)
Sydney talks about two internships/placements she's had, both of which took her outside of Canada. First, during her 1L summer she was with the World Bank Group in Washington DC -- an internship funded through Osgoode Hall Law School (there's another position funded through Western Law); and second, a term spent at The Hague in the Residual Mechanism for International Criminal Tribunals - which related to matters left over from the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia. Richard thought she was paid for these positions, but she assured us she wasn't.
Felicity is curious as to why Sydney hates Canada because she's always off galivanting around the world. Sydney's answer is much more sophisticated: she sees law as a somewhat limited licensed profession because expertise in it is not all that transferable, unlike other professions. For her, committing to one jurisdiction (as you pretty much need to do if you're going to have a career in professional practice) can be daunting for someone just starting out, and the barriers to moving around are high.
Sydney's advice if you want to do international law work: think about going to law school in the place you want to be; but if that's not possible, realize that a common law degree is a good backstop, particularly if the law school has an international reputation (which many in Canada do).
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Monday Nov 23, 2020
Monday Nov 23, 2020
Felicity is in a state because she just had her graduation photos taken, and is wondering whether everything is happening too fast. Is she ready to leave the law school nest?
Our guest this episode is Dylan Yan, a former student at Osgoode who transferred to McGill and is back in 1L all over again. Richard and Dylan have an unusual relationship as Dylan, who admits he rarely goes to class, got to know Richard well because he often visited his office during 1L at Osgoode. (Richard taught Dylan Public and Constitutional Law). He ended up transferring because he realized that there's no truth to the rumour that you should attend law school where you want to practice; so he made the move for himself, not for some wacky idea.
Felicity wonders whether there are differences approaches between different law schools. Both she and Dylan talk about how the form of law school evaluation gets reflected in class attendance and study habits. (Hint: all agree that form follows function here, which is far from ideal). Dylan concludes by relating a story of how he found a creative way to complete a property law photography assignment. Felicity and Richard are rendered almost speechless.
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Monday Nov 16, 2020
Monday Nov 16, 2020
Shaniel Lewis is our guest this episode. Shaniel's a 2L student at Osgoode, and it's her first time being a guest on a podcast.
Shaniel looks back to law school from the perspective of her 1L self. The amount of readings were a shock to her, she didn't expect to be reading cases everyday, including weekends. Richard wonders why it's such a shock; Felicity admits she also found the first year to include a lot of reading, but admitted she's a slow reader and knew it would take a lot of time.
Richard reveals that he wanted Shaniel on the show because she was a talker in class (as was Felicity), and is curious what they do to rein themselves in. Both agree that asking good questions in class is valuable, but sometimes it is better to go up individually to a prof. Shaniel drops the bomb that she sometimes ask questions just to get a laugh. The lesson to be learned, ultimately, is don't be annoying with your questions. Richard is put on the spot as to what he does with bad questions; he's far too diplomatic to ever say such a thing out loud (although he thinks it!)
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Tuesday Nov 10, 2020
Tuesday Nov 10, 2020
Our guest this episode is Emily Kot, a 2L student at Osgoode. Although she recommends Legally Blonde as a law-related film, she mentions she's seen Legally Blonde the musical. Richard and Felicity are completely blown away as they had no idea such a thing existed.
Turns out, she saw it at Hart House at the University of Toronto, as friends took her there to help ease the stress of grades release. That's exactly what the episode is about: 1L life and in particular, dealing with 1L life during a pandemic. Emily has a unique perspective because she lived in Hong Kong during the SARS epidemic in 2003. She remembers being pulled out of school, having to wear masks, and when she went back to school, having her music teacher pointing out those masked students who were not singing because he could see that their foreheads were not moving. It isn't clear how that relates to law school, but when Richard asks Emily for advice or pointers on how to cope, she says the biggest thing is knowing that the pandemic will end, that there is hope. Excellent advice.
Emily also says that keeping perspective is important while the pandemic Is on. Although anxieties about grades will always exist, Emily tries to turn the focus away from law students being turned into commodities for firms, since in the world at large, people are suffering in ways that put the privileges of law students in stark relief. Also excellent advice.
Emily and Felicity compare law school to high school. That was one thing Emily found she wasn't prepared for. 1L is clearly the most like high school, as students lack agency (Emily's word) but both agree things improve in upper years. Richard wonders if the "high school" label is unfairly pejorative -- there are good aspects to the collegiality and friendships that occur because of everyone's close proximity and shared experiences. Reluctantly, the other two agree. Richard coins a new term, BLS, meaning before law school, to reflect the two halves of one's life that law school manufactures. Felicity disses it as a term that will never catch on, but Emily and Felicity both then say it's important not to abandon your BLS friends, and Emily imparts some final wisdom, which is to find out and protect something you used to do in your BLS life. Richard names the episode BLS as vindication.
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Monday Nov 02, 2020
Monday Nov 02, 2020
Our guest is Adam Bruchetta, a law student at Dalhousie Law School. Adam decided to go to law school on the opposite coast from where he normally resides in Vancouver. He says he chose the ocean over the mountains of Calgary. Richard also went to Dal, so he and Adam have much in common. Adam and Felicity also have something in common because they met at a Dal Welcome Event for incoming law students -- Felicity was offered a spot at Dal but chose Osgoode. She is keen to assuage students who agonize over decisions about schools (not mentioning that some may not have options!) by saying they are all good in their own way.
Every March Dal hosts this event to win over potential students; Felicity suggests people on other admissions committees should think about doing the same thing.
Richard and Adam share stories about Dal, the Newfoundlanders that go there, and the East Coast mentality where strangers are more open and friendly. Richard agrees, although his only near-fight in his life took place on his second night in Halifax and to this day he's not sure how that happened.
The three discuss law school "social societies" as they are colloquially known. Domus, or house of the law, is Dal's social society, where students get together for drinks. Adam has a near-perfect record for making the Thursday night drinking (hisonly miss was for articling recruitment). Felicity thinks that Adam's approach exemplifies Dalhousie Law School. They all wonder what may happen to these during the pandemic. Adam ends with an aphorism that in unequaled in the podcast so far: "it’s a great day to have a great day". Enough said.
Monday Oct 26, 2020
Monday Oct 26, 2020
Our guest this episode is Erin McCrady, a friend of Felicity's and also the game of Quidditch. Erin is a 3L student at Northeastern University School of Law (or NUSOL) in Boston.
Before we even get to that, however, when Richard asks Felicity how she is, her reply is "same old steel." Turns out, that's a saying from her contracts prof at Osgoode, John McCamus. Richard then asks for her favourite contracts case: like many students, Felicity remembers the facts but not the name. Hopefully a viewer will set us straight on that.
Erin talks about being a law student in the US. Richard asks the blunt question as to whether Erin's profs are anti-Trump. Erin thinks they'd discuss him at length if they didn't have to cover regular class material, and not necessarily favourably. She mentions one prof who occasionally rants, and another who set aside time to have students explain what's happening in the country by getting them to present a legal news story. Richard wants to probe further, asking if any profs are pro-Trump. Erin says NUSOL is public interest focused, so it's likely not a law school that would be attractive to Trump supporters.
In discussing a choice of law school, Felicity says its much less of a big deal to agonize over choosing law school. "Just pull the trigger" is her advice. Since most law schools share a belief in the rule of law and justice, both Erin and Felicity struggle with why any law student (or prof) would be, or remain, a Trump supporter. Felicity thinks it would be hard to have an intellectually challenging discussion with someone who is so different (editor's note: in other words, we are lucky to be in Canada.)
Changing topics, Richard wonders whether the Socratic method is more common in the U.S. Erin thinks it may be, but only her civil procedure prof did so. NUSOL doesn't have class rankings, and opportunities for its students are not dependent on rank, so there's a little less pressure. Moreover, they don't have a curve, just honorifics -- High Honours, Honours, Pass, Marginal Pass, and Fail (thus leading to the slogan "MPs get degrees"). Interestingly, their transcripts contain a professor's narrative description of what each student is like, much as with report cards in grade school. There is also a private section on their transcripts that the public cannot see, which helps with feedback and comes in handy for jobs, as it's as if the transcript contains a mini letter of recommendation. Felicity thinks this should be a change to adopt in Canada, and that WLGTDWI will, henceforth, be the source for suggesting these kinds of creative changes to Canadian law schools.
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
More Perfect Podcast: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolabmoreperfect
Monday Oct 19, 2020
Monday Oct 19, 2020
Felicity announces that she now has her dog back, so everything starts off on a good note. Our guest this episode is Professor Karen Drake, Associate Dean Students at Osgoode. The gang spends a lot of time on Karen's choice of favourite law-related show because Karen tends to avoid them, in part because law is her job. In the end, she chooses Trailer Park Boys as her favourite, which provokes discussion about how she uses it in her Property Law exams. Felicity, having had Karen as a professor, was not surprised by the choice. Karen spends more time than any previous guest explaining why she chose the way she did, highlighting why she is a professor. Richard asks Felicity how Trailer Park Boys relates to law, and she recalls an example from an exam fact pattern. Karen gives her an A+ for the answer.
Karen elaborates on her role as Associate Dean, and how the nature of the role has changed somewhat during the pandemic. Felicity and Richard try to help by being especially nice to Karen during the podcast. Felicity is curious as to whether Karen had ideas for the role that now can't be realized due to the pandemic. There were some, but she was able to conduct some student surveys that have helped in gaining information. Richard recommends all law schools try and initiate an Associate Dean Students role, but Felicity reminds that our limited audience may not have the leverage to force such changes. Finally, Karen discusses the Academic Success sessions that she oversees; the need for empirical evidence led her to Stanford Psychology Professor Carol Dweck's work on growth mindset vs fixed mindset, and so Karen is trying to get students to adopt the former as a way of coping with law school.
Richard and Karen share teaching experiences, especially of 1L classes. Karen laments how she does miss teaching as her role as Associate Dean limits how much of that she can do. Felicity is amused that we are both pulling back the curtain revealing professorial secrets. The group ends by examining an aspect of law school that Karen likes, but that she wasn't aware of until now. Turns out it is the idea and practice of collegial governance that has been a revelation. Who would have known?!
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Link to fs blogpost on Carol Dweck's work: https://fs.blog/2015/03/carol-dweck-mindset/
Tuesday Oct 13, 2020
Tuesday Oct 13, 2020
Felicity starts off her first co-hosting duties by claiming that she'd be going to class if it weren't for the pandemic; Richard is thankful she's not starting off in Adam's shoes. The guest this episode is Rachael Glassman, 3L student who before law school, worked for 10 years in the film and TV industry.
Rachael describes how her experience scheduling TV shows helped at the very beginning of law school because she organized her entire Section's schedule on Google calendar - Felicity, who was in Rachael's section, loved Rachael's maternal instincts, she "cared". Rachael found that there was a big transition to go to law school after spending time working professionally. Rachael's one big concern entering law school was that she had forgotten how to study and write exams. This was particularly true in her case because in film studies there were no exams. Richard, trying to find out more about his new co-host, since he didn't know what Felicity did before law school, finds out she did what she calls a useless master's degree in physiotherapy.
Rachael had friends who were lawyers, so she was able to meet some alumni before attending and got good advice. She has tried to shape her career based on some of that early advice. In fact, her former boss was a former student of Richard's, who also went from TV/film to law school, then back to TV where he now negotiates contracts to purchase TV shows. Felicity wonders if it was easier for Rachael to choose a law school that is in the same town she worked. Rachael says she chose Osgoode because her own support system was here. The three discuss whether that would make the transition easier or not, because sometimes it can be good to completely uproot and move to somewhere new.
Rachael mentions a Rolodex at the end of the podcast. Richard isn't even sure she or Felicity know what they are, but he remembers having one when he first got out of law school.
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do With It
by Tina Turner
Soundcloud: What's Love Got to Do with It
Tuesday Sep 29, 2020
Tuesday Sep 29, 2020
Richard and Adam are joined by Felicity Radan, a 3L student at Osgoode. Felicity's favourite film is the biopic, "On the Basis of Sex" which Adam knows nothing about except he's intrigued by the title. Now that he's leaving, Adam admits that he's never watched any of the guests' recommendations except "Training Day," which confused him, whereas Richard tries to watch them all.
Adam had an idea of a topic for the podcast which is how to oust a co-host who's been involved since the beginning and that leads to the three of them bungling up the big announcement -- but basically it is revealed that Felicity Radan is taking over Adam's chair.
Felicity admits to only listening to half of the WLGTDWI episodes so far, although that's good enough, she says, for her to learn what not to do. Adam wants to know what Felicity is REALLY like. Is she a scared law student, a "try hard", or a social person. Felicity says she was the student who was scared of being scared of things. She found her footing when she wrote her first exams. Adam is worried that no one will identify with her, but is relieved when she says she needs to stress cry every so often. In the end, Adam feels that the podcast is in good hands.
Before leaving, Adam promises to continue to listen to the podcast. He then promises to open up a Facebook group so he can stay involved, and listener questions can be posted, since the old-fashioned voicemail line was actually not working for many months. Will this be just like his promise to do his readings? Or will the enterprising Adam step up? Time will tell.
Music Attribution:
What's Love Got to Do with It (Symphonic Version)
by Tina Turner
Buy now: https://VA.lnk.to/80sSymphonic